Harvey... Noindex items (?)

[mywaytoo]

Harvey... I have the same issue though for different reasons...

I have asked before about keeping Google out of one forum only. Although, in theory, I could post private information there for specific people, and other people won't be able to see it, Google will be able to see it and spread it everywhere as I have selected to have Google access the forum

Oh... just thought... I don't know how 'hidden' works, but suspect that although something may be hidden from visitors, it won't be hidden from Google...

[Harvey]

It's my understanding that if you click on a link into a hidden forum you wouldn't get in.

BUT...I have seen no evidence that the contents of my private forum is being index and I do check it.

[GregChapman]

I confess that I do not understand Harvey's post at:
http://nabble-support.1.n2.nabble.com/Noindex-items-td6934839.html
I suspect it belongs in an existing topic somewhere that would put it in context.

mywaytoo wrote

I have asked before about keeping Google out of one forum only. Although, in theory, I could post private information there for specific people, and other people won't be able to see it, Google will be able to see it and spread it everywhere as I have selected to have Google access the forum

Oh... just thought... I don't know how 'hidden' works, but suspect that although something may be hidden from visitors, it won't be hidden from Google...

The Nabble "Hidden" option works by placing the following code in all pages of the forum and any sub-forum:

<META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"/>

For an explanation of this code take a look at:
http://www.robotstxt.org/meta.html

It's almost the complete reverse of what you supposed. It stops respectable search engines from indexing (noindex) the current page, but allows it explore any links (follow) on that page. This means it excludes all pages on the forum from being analysed by Google (or other legitimate search engines) but should anyone have posted external links they will be spidered and indexed (unless the target page also has a "noindex" set in it).

It will not stop humans or malware that have access to a page from viewing or analysing it. Search engines do not go through any login/registration processes, so pages that require such access are hidden from search engines anyway - and from humans/malware unless the security is hacked.

Getting Nabble to allow indexing of just one page would be a matter for Premium support or tackling the job yourself with NAML.

[Harvey]

I should have been clear. I'd like to "noindex" things that don't make sense.

For example the Embed Options pages is giving me duplicate titles/meta descriptions.  It's an Admin only page - so IMO should not be indexed.

I figured I'd post any no index issues I found there so Hugo and Peter could see them.

[mywaytoo]

GregChapman wrote

Search engines do not go through any login/registration processes, so pages that require such access are hidden from search engines anyway - and from humans/malware unless the security is hacked.

Greg... I have set (somewhere) to allow Google to have access... I assumed that that meant everywhere...  

[Peter <Nabble>]

Greg is right. The search engines have the same access as any anonymous random user. Sometimes even less, since it doesn't run javascript.

[GregChapman]

mywaytoo wrote

 I have set (somewhere) to allow Google to have access... I assumed that that meant everywhere...  

That option changed position in a recent upgrade and is now found under OPTIONS > APPLICATION > EXTRAS & ADD-ONs > CONTENT. It is only available at the top-level and the setting is inherited by all sub-forums.

Just to clarify... Search engine spidering software doesn't have an email address and isn't capable of generating a password, so it can't register itself or complete a login, so on a Nabble site the spider bot remains in the "Anyone" group and can only view those forums and sub-forums that any other user in the "Anyone" group can. Should you specify "Hide from Search Engines" option then respectable spiders will honour the site's author's request and not bother with even those pages that it is capable of viewing.

[mywaytoo]

GregChapman wrote

Just to clarify... Search engine spidering software doesn't have an email address and isn't capable of generating a password, so it can't register itself or complete a login, so on a Nabble site the spider bot remains in the "Anyone" group and can only view those forums and sub-forums that any other user in the "Anyone" group can.

So can I reword it to see if I have grasped it properly...
I want Google to access everything... except one sub-forum, which I hope to call Customers. And on this sub-forum, I hope to post details that will only ever be available to Customers, never to anyone else, so never to Google et al.

Taken from: Options > Application > Extras & Add-ons > Content...
"Hide contents from search engines
Select this checkbox if you want to prevent Google and other search engines from indexing the contents of this application."

So I have left this box unchecked. Is that OK so far???

But now I have noticed this, taken from the same place...
"Smart application pages
If your application has private sub-forums (or any other private sub-app), you can use this feature to make app pages always display the contents that the user can view."

What is a private sub-forum? Have I missed something?

[Peter <Nabble>]

Private subforums are those who need registering and adequate permissions to be accessed (not for "anyone" group).

[GregChapman]

mywaytoo wrote

I want Google to access everything... except one sub-forum, which I hope to call Customers. And on this sub-forum, I hope to post details that will only ever be available to Customers, never to anyone else, so never to Google et al.

That implies that for the "Customers" sub-forum the "Anyone" group will hav the permission "View" cleared, and that you have established a special group whose members will be the only ones who have "View", "Create_topic" and "Reply" set. Google, and others users in the "Anyone" group, will not even be able to see the sub-forum, so they certainly won't be able to spider it.

Taken from: Options > Application > Extras & Add-ons > Content...
"Hide contents from search engines
Select this checkbox if you want to prevent Google and other search engines from indexing the contents of this application."

So I have left this box unchecked. Is that OK so far???

Yes, because as Google has not been asked not to index any page it can access, it will index any accessible page. (It still won't magically be able to access pages that require login to access them.)

"Smart application pages
If your application has private sub-forums (or any other private sub-app), you can use this feature to make app pages always display the contents that the user can view."

This is confusing and, perhaps, badly worded. It was a facility added for Harvey as a Premium Support request. I jumped on the bandwagon because it affected my "Mixed" application as well. It has since been rolled out and now appears to all Nabble customers. I got the impression that it didn't affects any other application, but I see the note doesn't tell you that, so I could be wrong.

Originally, a "Mixed" forum cached some of the sub-forum data and the "Mixed" forum display failed to show some of the sub-forums that were meant to be visible to members of certain groups. This option prevents the caching taking place and allows the "hidden" sub-forums to show to those who should be able to see them.

I had a "Moderated Posts" sub-forum to which members of the group "Moderators" would move questionable posts, pending a decision on their treatment. This was made invisible to all except "Moderators" and "Admin". However, because of the caching, the "Moderated Posts" sub-forum would not show on the Mixed application, even for Moderators and Admin, who supposedly had "view" permissions. The only way for them to access it was via the OPTIONS > STRUCTURE > MANAGE SUBCATEGORIES screen, where it appeared in the pinned forum list. Extremely inconvenient! This options removes the caching and allows all appropriate sub-forums to be displayed to each user group.

What is a private sub-forum? Have I missed something?

I doubt it. It's just a sub-forum to which some user groups have view permissions turned off. Because of the "bug" in the way that the Mixed application cached its data, it meant it became more private than it should have been.

The reason this cure for the bug is only offered as an option is because only a few people have my kind of setup and the cure has the side effect of slowing down forum delivery for very large forums. (This was why it was cached in the first place - to help speed things up and most people are unaffected by the bug and would prefer a faster forum.)

[mywaytoo]

Greg... Doh!

GregChapman wrote

Originally, a "Mixed" forum cached some of the sub-forum data and the "Mixed" forum display failed to show some of the sub-forums that were meant to be visible to members of certain groups. This option prevents the caching taking place and allows the "hidden" sub-forums to show to those who should be able to see them.

So... I don't want caching then either, do I? Because Google will spread it out on its SERPs?  

[GregChapman]

If you run a "Mixed" application and have a "Customers" user group that has view permission to certain sub-forums while those in the "Anyone" group do not, then yes, you will need to turn on the "Smart Application" facility.

You can easily easily check if you need to use it. Visit your Mixed application as an "Anyone". Then visit as a "Customer" you should then see the additional sub-forums that only Customers are supposed to see.

As you probably know, sub-forums need to be pinned to be visible in the mixed application. If they are not then they only be accessed via devious means such as attempting to post in them and via the "Manage subcategories" option menu. However, Google can't get to those places as it requires a login.