Easily accessible illegal content

[artgallery42]

I was extremely disturbed to find this within 1 broad generic search term and 1 click from the search box of the family friendly forum I'm a member of:

http://n2.nabble.com/b-td2645146.html#a2721855

It's a matter for the Police, let alone a forum moderator. Any comments or justifications from nabble?

Imo any other nabble forum is guilty by association due to the linking structure, and as such, is concerning to say the least.

[vames]

It's too easily associated to any forum.

Here-in lies my problem with this.
I embed my forum into my website.
Somebody uses a search option and finds the sort of content you have just posted about in your OP and I am guilty by association.
I'm sorry.
I don't want to be associated with this kind of thing.

As an owner of a community forum I have to say that I am extremely disturbed.

I think it's time to ditch nabble and write my own version.

[artgallery42]

This is too important to get lost in the help forum.  *bump*

[artgallery42]

Is nobody else concerned about this?

[Graham Perrin]

artgallery42 wrote

… forum I'm a member of:

http://n2.nabble.com/b-td2645146.html#a2721855

In any situation such as this, I would without hesitation:

1. personally ban the poster of the offending message

2. if appropriate, for legal purposes, keep a copy of the message with relevant details

3. ask the forum owner to remove the offending message

4. ask the forum owner to ban the offending poster.

I would also definitely read the Terms of Use of Nabble. I have not reviewed the terms recently but I assume that suggestions 1—4 above are not contrary.

Regards
Graham

[vames]

This is horrible.

How can I switch off the ability to search other forums?

I am not prepared to have this sort of content going anywhere NEAR my website. (my forum is embedded in my site and there is tons of this rubbish one seqrch click away)

THIS IS URGENT.

1. personally ban the poster of the offending message.
- I can't, it's not my forum

2. if appropriate, for legal purposes, keep a copy of the message with relevant details
- There are thousands of them. This is not practicle

3. ask the forum owner to remove the offending message
- In some cases it's the forum owners own messages

4. ask the forum owner to ban the offending poster.
As per point 4

[Graham Perrin]

vames wrote

1. personally ban the poster of the offending message.
- I can't, it's not my forum

It need not be your forum.

I have banned someone.

You, too, should be able to ban any person.

Please try again:

• click the name of the offending person
• at the person's profile, use the option to ban.

[Graham Perrin]

vames wrote

my forum is embedded in my site and there is tons of this rubbish one seqrch click away

Postscript

If the offending content is not in your embedded forum:

• it will not appear in your site as a result of a normal (non-advanced) search.

If a user opts for an advanced search, then strays from your forum (to all forums), then a search will return results from all forums.

An advanced search of all forums, initiated from an embedded forum, will present results:

• embedded
• with the tag line Powered by Nabble.

[Graham Perrin]

artgallery42 wrote

http://n2.nabble.com/b-td2645146.html#a2721855

That forum is clearly inappropriate.

In addition to the inappropriate content, the forum owner is using the familiar name Nabble in an inappropriate way as a name for their forum.

I echo any request for the forum/content to be removed, and for Nabble to deal as appropriate with the relevant account.

[Graham Perrin]

Where advanced Search offers:

[•] just in '{name of forum}'   [ ] all forums

1. the second option should be changed to read
   [ ] all areas of Nabble

2. the second option should gain a tip (visible on mouse over) to clarify that the search will extend far beyond the starting point, and may lead away from the current site

3. if [•] all areas of Nabble is selected, and if embedding is effective, then a click on Search Forums should lead away from the embedding site, should lead to the Nabble site with the Nabble UI

— maybe simplest to present search results in a new window?

Postscripts

Slight change to point 2.

Clarification and extension of point 3.

[artgallery42]

I appreciate your points Graham and vames, and thanks for agreeing with me about the seriousness of the issue, but I think my concern has been somewhat glossed over.

The people who post that filth, if caught, would go to Prison or at the very least be prosecuted. No matter how many filters we apply, those forums are still linked to our forums. It's not like finding stuff on google, we've signed up to use these forums. Any investigation would reveal that all our forums are linked to those illegal forums. I can't begin to imagine the repercussions of an investigation carried out by someone who doesn't understand the linking structure of nabble...

"Guilty by association" springs to mind. I may well be over-reacting, but that doesn't alter the fact that some of the stuff posted on some (many?) nabble forums is horrifying and is simply in a different subfolder to ours but within the same top level url...

[vames]

Graham Perrin wrote

Where advanced Search offers:

[•] just in '{name of forum}'   [ ] all forums

1. the second option should be changed to read
   [ ] all areas of Nabble

2. the second option should gain a tip (visible on mouse over) to clarify that the search will extend far beyond the starting point, and lead away from the current site

3. a click on Search Forums should lead away from the site in which the search originated, to the Nabble site with the Nabble UI.

I would lie to add my vote to those requests please but I would like to go one step further.
The  [ ] all forums should be allowed to be remioved.

I was going to write a website similar to the site I wrote for http://www.acesellers.org.uk for our local scout group!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO WAY CAN I DO THIS unless I can guarantee that no one can find this rubbish.

As per Pauls post. I am concerned about being guilty by association.
This needs dealig with very urgently before we all get into serious trouble.

I am faced with having to remove all traces of nabble from our website and finding an alternative or awaiting a solution for nabble.

EVERYONE that embeds a forum into their website should be seriously worried about this and if they are not then they don't understand the problem.

I could easily see a visitor to our website making a complaint about our site allowing this content to be found and getting into a whole heap of trouble.
I don't think a defence in court of "I'm sorry It's not our content"  would wash with a judge or jury somehow.

I stronbgly believe that this is guilt by association and I can not stress enough the urgence and inportance of this.

I also am totally disgusted at the total lack of any acknowledgement of this issue from nabble staff.

Don't they care about such a serious issue?
They are also going to get into a whole shed load of trouble.

I have complaied about not being able to delete others posts in the past and this is EXACTLY why I as a forum owner, and any other forum owner, should be able to delete posts by others.

Nabble you HAVE to do something. Urgently.

[Graham Perrin]

Really, there's no intention to gloss over.

Immediate bans and other actions by the individual can be seen as precursors to actions that may be taken by Nabble or whoever.

artgallery42 wrote

… those forums are still linked to our forums. It's not like finding stuff on google, we've signed up to use these forums. … 

Extending the comparison: Google Groups have Terms of Service and answers to questions such as How can I remove another author's posts?. A search for smut reveals possibly illegal pornographic content (I did not look further) directly alongside a group for college alumni.

In the Google Groups example, I make no association between the two groups in the google.com domain. Similarly, I make no association between diverse fora in the nabble.com domain.

I don't know legal aspects, but I would not describe any fora as linked unless they share a breadcrumb trail.

[Graham Perrin]

vames wrote

I as a forum owner, and any other forum owner, should be able to delete posts by others.

Separating that suggestion, from the issue of inappropriate content, I disagree:

• I should not delete your posts

• you should not delete mine.

Nabble does allow you to remove my posts from your forum.

[Graham Perrin]

vames wrote

… having to remove all traces of nabble from our website

You can:

• exclude Nabble from the breadcrumb trail
• prefer to not embed in your site.

Nabble permalinks will be good with or without embedding.

and finding an alternative or awaiting a solution for nabble.

There are discussions of an installable version of Nabble, e.g.
<http://n2.nabble.com/-tp2300025p2300025.html> and <http://n2.nabble.com/-tp2229606p2236602.html>, if this possibility arises then you can have more control.

Regards
Graham

[artgallery42]

Thanks for your comments Graham and Vames.

I guess we could spend forever discussing semantics.

With regard to google, look at it as a question of perspective.

Google Groups aside, most people regard Google as a search engine. You type in a term, it searches the Internet and brings up a list of websites. It's filtered by default and is considered as a tool to surf the net.

People find nabble in a search engine, it's a website that allows you to create a forum in it's webspace. All nabble forums are contained in the same website, irrespective of where or how they're embedded. Use the search facility and it finds forums on the nabble website, many of which contain illegal content. - Guilty by association? Maybe?

Google groups isn't the issue for me, I'm not signed up with them, I'm signed up with nabble. Google have their own policing, Nabble appears to have very little, and no response yet from the owners. In any case, the majority of dubious Google Groups are keyword targetting. You visit a group and your presented with, in most cases, lists of unrelated spam links. The forum I highlighted in my OP (although a lot of the content has now been removed) was actually a discussion between members.

So what can I do?

Carry on using nabble and say it's not my problem?
Cancel my nabble account, go elsewhere and say it's not my problem?

Neither of these options sit easily with me, it's a major concern to say the least.


PS, I've noticed that the forum in question has been removed, thank you, whoever, for doing that. It's not my intention to go on some sort of personal crusade and highlight every forum with dubious/illegal publicly viewable content, but a simple search will, without a doubt, reveal many more.

[Hugo <Nabble>]

I've deleted those posts, but users also have tools to solve problems like this. The ban feature can be used to remove all posts/sub-forums from any user who is bothering you. Please use that when you see more illegal content under your forums or any other app (click on the user profile and click on "Ban this user"). That specific post was created by a bot and we are working on ways to block them.

Regards,
Hugo Teixeira
Nabble.com

[Graham Perrin]

Hugo: many thanks for the deletion and the ongoing work against bots.

A few hours ago, I sought and found a few other accounts from which posted similar or identical content has been posted.

I have banned those users, would you like me to send (via e-mail) an HTML list of those bans?

Regards
Graham

[Hugo <Nabble>]

Thanks, Graham.

Graham Perrin wrote

I have banned those users, would you like me to send (via e-mail) an HTML list of those bans?

There is no need. I can check your account in the database if needed.

Best regards,
Hugo Teixeira
Nabble.com

[artgallery42]

Thanks for the deletion and the behind the scenes work.