Tomcat user group

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Tomcat user group

Fernal73
I'm subscribed to the digest version of the Apache Tomcat User group since I don't wish to receive every individual email in my inbox.
Will I still be able to reply or post to the user group via Nabble in this case?
That doesn't appear to be happening.
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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
A digest necessarily comes from a "No-Reply" Nabble address. To make replies to any post you see in a digest message you need to click on the link above the quote of any individual post. That takes you to the forum where you can read the full text of the post and make your reply.

Most of the Apache groups hosted by Nabble are archives of mail lists. You also need to be subscribed to the original mail list for a post to be accepted by the mail list. I have more information on this topic at:
http://greghelp.991552.n3.nabble.com/Help-with-Mail-Lists-f4012813.html

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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
Thanks, Greg, for your email.

I guess what I'm asking is whether I have to be subscribed to the user group or the digest. The former floods my inbox with every email and every response; the latter, I'm assuming, will not.

As for Nabble, I clicked reply to a post replied to after I unsubscribed from the user group and to the digest instead.

I was shown the preview mail screen with the message that it will be forwarded to the user group only if I was a subscribed member. It does not state whether that holds for subscription to the digest as well.

This is my first time subscribing to an Apache user group and I do not know if there is a way to not receive the emails and yet be a member of the group and access them online.

Subscribing directly via the email addresses provides no pointers to resolve the issue.

Google and Yahoo! Groups are different animals altogether.

Regards,
Linus.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 13:33 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
A digest necessarily comes from a "No-Reply" Nabble address. To make replies to any post you see in a digest message you need to click on the link above the quote of any individual post. That takes you to the forum where you can read the full text of the post and make your reply.

Most of the Apache groups hosted by Nabble are archives of mail lists. You also need to be subscribed to the original mail list for a post to be accepted by the mail list. I have more information on this topic at:
http://greghelp.991552.n3.nabble.com/Help-with-Mail-Lists-f4012813.html

Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
Hi Linus,
Fernal73 wrote
Thanks, Greg, for your email.
Being more accurate, it was a forum post to which you have subscribed! :-)
I guess what I'm asking is whether I have to be subscribed to the user
group or the digest. The former floods my inbox with every email and every
response; the latter, I'm assuming, will not.
On a Nabble digest you'll get one message a day with links to the posts made in the last 24 hours each with a snippet of each post so you can assess whether it is worth viewing the full post on the forum (a.k.a. Nabble archive).

I'm not familiar with the Tomcat mail lists, but have just taken a look and realised that there are a number (Developers, Users, etc). Most appear to be archived on Nabble (amongst other places). On Nabble, each list is posted to a sub-forum within a single Nabble forum. You can subscribe to an individual sub-forum on Nabble, in either digest or individual posts mode. Depending on what you have subscribed to that in itself may reduce the volume of mail you receive.

Looking at the mail lists themselves... unlike some mail list software (such as YahooGroups) Tomcat mail lists don't appear to have an option to be a subscriber but temporally suspend receipt of emails (I even sent a message to the Users mail list address: users-help@tomcat.apache.org and got the automated response, but still I couldn't find such an option.) But the User list does offer a digest option from the mail list itself and that might be the best option for you.

You could then unsubscribe from Nabble and simply use the Nabble forum to search for historic posts that provide an answer to any question you have.
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
Thanks, Greg.

My concern is that I posted a query to the Tomcat user group, received a valid, helpful response but am now unable to respond to the person who helped out because I have since logged out from the group. Logging back in does not help since I am not in receipt of that email but located it on the archives. I responded personally via Nabble by clicking on that user's profile but I have no confirmation that it has been received by the respondent.

The archives are fine as read-only, search-only. Posting or responding to posts is a hassle if you have to enable membership of the actual email group.

It would help if there was a way to post or respond as guests with a limit on total responses or posts per week or month. I recognise that these groups are serious developers and users and wasting time can only aggravate or frustrate them.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 17:06 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Linus,
Fernal73 wrote
Thanks, Greg, for your email.
Being more accurate, it was a forum post to which you have subscribed! :-)
I guess what I'm asking is whether I have to be subscribed to the user
group or the digest. The former floods my inbox with every email and every
response; the latter, I'm assuming, will not.
On a Nabble digest you'll get one message a day with links to the posts made in the last 24 hours each with a snippet of each post so you can assess whether it is worth viewing the full post on the forum (a.k.a. Nabble archive).

I'm not familiar with the Tomcat mail lists, but have just taken a look and realised that there are a number (Developers, Users, etc). Most appear to be archived on Nabble (amongst other places). On Nabble, each list is posted to a sub-forum within a single Nabble forum. You can subscribe to an individual sub-forum on Nabble, in either digest or individual posts mode. Depending on what you have subscribed to that in itself may reduce the volume of mail you receive.

Looking at the mail lists themselves... unlike some mail list software (such as YahooGroups) Tomcat mail lists don't appear to have an option to be a subscriber but temporally suspend receipt of emails (I even sent a message to the Users mail list address: [hidden email] and got the automated response, but still I couldn't find such an option.) But the User list does offer a digest option from the mail list itself and that might be the best option for you.

You could then unsubscribe from Nabble and simply use the Nabble forum to search for historic posts that provide an answer to any question you have.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://support.nabble.com/Tomcat-user-group-tp7604231p7604237.html
To unsubscribe from Tomcat user group, click here.
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
I'm still unable to post replies to the group via Nabble  and clicking subscribe button does not result in an email from the Tomcat User group. I am  directly subscribed to the group currently since I'm receiving emails from users in the group.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 19:02 Fernal73 [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Greg.

My concern is that I posted a query to the Tomcat user group, received a valid, helpful response but am now unable to respond to the person who helped out because I have since logged out from the group. Logging back in does not help since I am not in receipt of that email but located it on the archives. I responded personally via Nabble by clicking on that user's profile but I have no confirmation that it has been received by the respondent.

The archives are fine as read-only, search-only. Posting or responding to posts is a hassle if you have to enable membership of the actual email group.

It would help if there was a way to post or respond as guests with a limit on total responses or posts per week or month. I recognise that these groups are serious developers and users and wasting time can only aggravate or frustrate them.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 17:06 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Linus,
Fernal73 wrote
Thanks, Greg, for your email.
Being more accurate, it was a forum post to which you have subscribed! :-)
I guess what I'm asking is whether I have to be subscribed to the user
group or the digest. The former floods my inbox with every email and every
response; the latter, I'm assuming, will not.
On a Nabble digest you'll get one message a day with links to the posts made in the last 24 hours each with a snippet of each post so you can assess whether it is worth viewing the full post on the forum (a.k.a. Nabble archive).

I'm not familiar with the Tomcat mail lists, but have just taken a look and realised that there are a number (Developers, Users, etc). Most appear to be archived on Nabble (amongst other places). On Nabble, each list is posted to a sub-forum within a single Nabble forum. You can subscribe to an individual sub-forum on Nabble, in either digest or individual posts mode. Depending on what you have subscribed to that in itself may reduce the volume of mail you receive.

Looking at the mail lists themselves... unlike some mail list software (such as YahooGroups) Tomcat mail lists don't appear to have an option to be a subscriber but temporally suspend receipt of emails (I even sent a message to the Users mail list address: [hidden email] and got the automated response, but still I couldn't find such an option.) But the User list does offer a digest option from the mail list itself and that might be the best option for you.

You could then unsubscribe from Nabble and simply use the Nabble forum to search for historic posts that provide an answer to any question you have.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.



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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
See my post just made at:
http://support.nabble.com/Can-t-post-question-to-nabble-in-subscribed-page-tp7604228p7604251.html
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
Thanks, Greg. I received no such email from the user group admin nor any email from my attempt to subscribe to the group via Nabble.

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019, 04:10 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
See my post just made at:
http://support.nabble.com/Can-t-post-question-to-nabble-in-subscribed-page-tp7604228p7604251.html
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
In reply to this post by Fernal73
Fernal73 wrote
My concern is that I posted a query to the Tomcat user group, received a valid, helpful response but am now unable to respond to the person who helped out because I have since logged out from the group. Logging back in does not help since I am not in receipt of that email but located it on the archives. I responded personally via Nabble by clicking on that user's profile but I have no confirmation that it has been received by the respondent.
I may be slightly confused by your phrase "logging out from the group". To me it could mean either "unsubscribing from the list", but if so there's no reason why that should remove emails you had received from it. But then "Logging back in does not help" makes me wonder if you were referring to the Nabble archive, or if it means you re-subscribed to the mail list, perhaps using another address.

It is quite possible that an email sent via Nabble will not be read, especially if the recipient is not used to using the archive. Emails from Nabble can be treated as spam by some mail services.
The archives are fine as read-only, search-only. Posting or responding to posts is a hassle if you have to enable membership of the actual email group.
I agree, but that is the only way Nabble can operate.
It would help if there was a way to post or respond as guests with a limit on total responses or posts per week or month. I recognise that these groups are serious developers and users and wasting time can only aggravate or frustrate them.
The trouble is that Nabble is fundamentally, designed with forum concepts in mind. As you say, it works well as a read-only archive, but has issues when interacting with mail list software. As I see it, it is only because Nabble has no internal private messaging facility, and relies on email as the mechanism for responding privately to forum posts that gives it the possibility as acting as a gateway to a mail list, but the compromises produce difficulties.

This topic itself, as I describe on GregHelp, is an illustration of one of those problems.
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
Here, logging out is unsubscribing.

I'd assume if the group received the email, it would show in the archives.

None of the messages I attempted through Nabble show up in the archives.

Either Nabble's email gateway to the user group is broken or my email response is being rejected by the group.

The only way to test the latter is to send another email through my email client. I don't want to send a test email to a high volume group.



On Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 13:42 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Fernal73 wrote
My concern is that I posted a query to the Tomcat user group, received a valid, helpful response but am now unable to respond to the person who helped out because I have since logged out from the group. Logging back in does not help since I am not in receipt of that email but located it on the archives. I responded personally via Nabble by clicking on that user's profile but I have no confirmation that it has been received by the respondent.
I may be slightly confused by your phrase "logging out from the group". To me it could mean either "unsubscribing from the list", but if so there's no reason why that should remove emails you had received from it. But then "Logging back in does not help" makes me wonder if you were referring to the Nabble archive, or if it means you re-subscribed to the mail list, perhaps using another address.

It is quite possible that an email sent via Nabble will not be read, especially if the recipient is not used to using the archive. Emails from Nabble can be treated as spam by some mail services.
The archives are fine as read-only, search-only. Posting or responding to posts is a hassle if you have to enable membership of the actual email group.
I agree, but that is the only way Nabble can operate.
It would help if there was a way to post or respond as guests with a limit on total responses or posts per week or month. I recognise that these groups are serious developers and users and wasting time can only aggravate or frustrate them.
The trouble is that Nabble is fundamentally, designed with forum concepts in mind. As you say, it works well as a read-only archive, but has issues when interacting with mail list software. As I see it, it is only because Nabble has no internal private messaging facility, and relies on email as the mechanism for responding privately to forum posts that gives it the possibility as acting as a gateway to a mail list, but the compromises produce difficulties.

This topic itself, as I describe on GregHelp, is an illustration of one of those problems.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
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If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
Apparently, I'm able to send messages to the group via my email client.
In that case, it's the Reply feature on Nabble that's broken.

On Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 15:22 Fernal73 [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Here, logging out is unsubscribing.

I'd assume if the group received the email, it would show in the archives.

None of the messages I attempted through Nabble show up in the archives.

Either Nabble's email gateway to the user group is broken or my email response is being rejected by the group.

The only way to test the latter is to send another email through my email client. I don't want to send a test email to a high volume group.



On Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 13:42 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Fernal73 wrote
My concern is that I posted a query to the Tomcat user group, received a valid, helpful response but am now unable to respond to the person who helped out because I have since logged out from the group. Logging back in does not help since I am not in receipt of that email but located it on the archives. I responded personally via Nabble by clicking on that user's profile but I have no confirmation that it has been received by the respondent.
I may be slightly confused by your phrase "logging out from the group". To me it could mean either "unsubscribing from the list", but if so there's no reason why that should remove emails you had received from it. But then "Logging back in does not help" makes me wonder if you were referring to the Nabble archive, or if it means you re-subscribed to the mail list, perhaps using another address.

It is quite possible that an email sent via Nabble will not be read, especially if the recipient is not used to using the archive. Emails from Nabble can be treated as spam by some mail services.
The archives are fine as read-only, search-only. Posting or responding to posts is a hassle if you have to enable membership of the actual email group.
I agree, but that is the only way Nabble can operate.
It would help if there was a way to post or respond as guests with a limit on total responses or posts per week or month. I recognise that these groups are serious developers and users and wasting time can only aggravate or frustrate them.
The trouble is that Nabble is fundamentally, designed with forum concepts in mind. As you say, it works well as a read-only archive, but has issues when interacting with mail list software. As I see it, it is only because Nabble has no internal private messaging facility, and relies on email as the mechanism for responding privately to forum posts that gives it the possibility as acting as a gateway to a mail list, but the compromises produce difficulties.

This topic itself, as I describe on GregHelp, is an illustration of one of those problems.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
In reply to this post by Fernal73
Fernal73 wrote
I'd assume if the group received the email, it would show in the archives.
...
None of the messages I attempted through Nabble show up in the archives.
As Nabble is simply a subscriber to the list then I'd expect any mail successfully posted to the list should appear in the archive.

There are a number of reasons I can think of as to why a post might not appear in the Nabble archive including:
1. The address is under moderation at the list and awaiting the approval of a moderator
2. The post is made from the Nabble archive and that is either being rejected because of a "SPF Softfail"
3. The post is made from the Nabble archive without a subscription on the list being in place.

It seems #1 and #3 do not apply and you report no emails received indicating #2 applies. Nor, indeed, any of the other messages that I'd expect Nabble to generate, either as notes on the forum post. However, there's another potential issue that I have just recalled. See:
http://greghelp.991552.n3.nabble.com/Your-Posts-To-A-Nabble-Mail-List-Are-Missing-td4012805.html

Could that apply in your case?
It would mean that you need to approach the owner of the Nabble archive and get them to edit the macro indicated in that post.

Either Nabble's email gateway to the user group is broken or my email
response is being rejected by the group.

The only way to test the latter is to send another email through my email
client. I don't want to send a test email to a high volume group.
Agreed! Test posts to such a group would not be welcome.

And from your follow-up...
Apparently, I'm able to send messages to the group via my email client.
In that case, it's the Reply feature on Nabble that's broken.
I assume "group" means the mail list, not the Nabble archive.

In that case, the evidence is stacking up against Nabble's assumption that users all work with "Conversation-style" email clients.
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
I use a gmail address---that's evident. And my email client is the Gmail app on Android.

I noticed, only now , there's an option to subscribe to the user group on Nabble via individual emails or digest. This is not the same as subscribing to the Tomcat User group directly. Does this mean I don't need to be a member of the original group and still receive the emails via Nabble?







On Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 19:58 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Fernal73 wrote
I'd assume if the group received the email, it would show in the archives.
...
None of the messages I attempted through Nabble show up in the archives.
As Nabble is simply a subscriber to the list then I'd expect any mail successfully posted to the list should appear in the archive.

There are a number of reasons I can think of as to why a post might not appear in the Nabble archive including:
1. The address is under moderation at the list and awaiting the approval of a moderator
2. The post is made from the Nabble archive and that is either being rejected because of a "SPF Softfail"
3. The post is made from the Nabble archive without a subscription on the list being in place.

It seems #1 and #3 do not apply and you report no emails received indicating #2 applies. Nor, indeed, any of the other messages that I'd expect Nabble to generate, either as notes on the forum post. However, there's another potential issue that I have just recalled. See:
http://greghelp.991552.n3.nabble.com/Your-Posts-To-A-Nabble-Mail-List-Are-Missing-td4012805.html

Could that apply in your case?
It would mean that you need to approach the owner of the Nabble archive and get them to edit the macro indicated in that post.

Either Nabble's email gateway to the user group is broken or my email
response is being rejected by the group.

The only way to test the latter is to send another email through my email
client. I don't want to send a test email to a high volume group.
Agreed! Test posts to such a group would not be welcome.

And from your follow-up...
Apparently, I'm able to send messages to the group via my email client.
In that case, it's the Reply feature on Nabble that's broken.
I assume "group" means the mail list, not the Nabble archive.

In that case, the evidence is stacking up against Nabble's assumption that users all work with "Conversation-style" email clients.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
Fernal73 wrote
I noticed, only now , there's an option to subscribe to the user group on
Nabble via individual emails or digest. This is not the same as subscribing to the Tomcat User group directly. Does this mean I don't need to be a member of the original group and still receive the emails via Nabble?
Yes!  The two subscription options are standard on any Nabble forum but they are not always ideal for a mail list archive.

You do not need to be a subscriber to the original list to receive subscription emails from the Nabble archive. However, without a subscription to the original list you will not be permitted to post or more accurately, while the message will appear on the forum/archive the copy forwarded to the list will be rejected and the response that the forum then receives triggers a warning flag on the forum copy of the post.

So, unlike a Nabble archive of a YahooGroup, where there is an option to suspend receipt of emails from the YahooGroup without killing your membership of it, it seems you might as well subscribe to the list direct.
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
That's great, Greg. This way, one can lurk on these groups without being a subscribed member. 
It also allows users to monitor groups that they have no active interest in.
The only complaint I have, I guess, is that if one's only a subscriber on Nabble, is whether the size of the emails received differ. I'd expect them to be shorter, merely the header and a few lines as against the full content that a member would receive from the original group.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019, 06:48 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Fernal73 wrote
I noticed, only now , there's an option to subscribe to the user group on
Nabble via individual emails or digest. This is not the same as subscribing to the Tomcat User group directly. Does this mean I don't need to be a member of the original group and still receive the emails via Nabble?
Yes!  The two subscription options are standard on any Nabble forum but they are not always ideal for a mail list archive.

You do not need to be a subscriber to the original list to receive subscription emails from the Nabble archive. However, without a subscription to the original list you will not be permitted to post or more accurately, while the message will appear on the forum/archive the copy forwarded to the list will be rejected and the response that the forum then receives triggers a warning flag on the forum copy of the post.

So, unlike a Nabble archive of a YahooGroup, where there is an option to suspend receipt of emails from the YahooGroup without killing your membership of it, it seems you might as well subscribe to the list direct.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
In reply to this post by GregChapman
GregChapman wrote
So, unlike a Nabble archive of a YahooGroup, where there is an option to suspend receipt of emails from the YahooGroup without killing your membership of it, it seems you might as well subscribe to the list direct.
That was badly phrased. It should have said...

Where the mail list software offers a "nomail" option, as YahooGroups do, then a Nabble archive works well as you can retain your membership of the YahhooGroup, receive mail through a Nabble subscription and post via the archive or via email to the archive.

However, traditional mail list software, such as that used by Tomcat, makes subscribing to the archive completely pointless as you will receive mail from both list and archive, and if you plan to post via email and not direct from the archive makes use of the archive redundant.

With such mail lists a Nabble archive is only of use if you do not want to receive any mail but occasionally you might look through the archive and want to post a response directly while reading it.
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Re: Tomcat user group

GregChapman
In reply to this post by Fernal73
Oops. Our posts crossed.

Tomcat offers a digest as well as individual post subscription. I cannot imagine they are significantly different in size, but otherwise I think you now understand how things work and can make a decision on what approach will suit you best.
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
That pretty much sums it up, Greg.
The archives are also useful for users like me who have a limited size
inbox and cannot accommodate the storage space required for all the
emails from various lists over time. Deleting those emails
(automatically) is the only way to ensure sufficient storage space is
available for incoming email. Online archives versus personal archives
for public group emails? A no-brained, actually.

On 16/09/2019, GregChapman [via Nabble Support]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Oops. Our posts crossed.
>
> Tomcat offers a digest as well as individual post subscription. I cannot
> imagine they are significantly different in size, but otherwise I think you
> now understand how things work and can make a decision on what approach
> will
> suit you best.
>
>
>
> -----
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
In reply to this post by GregChapman
Greg,

I just happened to check my Spam folder. The SPF rejection email was found there. You were right.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019, 12:17 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oops. Our posts crossed.

Tomcat offers a digest as well as individual post subscription. I cannot imagine they are significantly different in size, but otherwise I think you now understand how things work and can make a decision on what approach will suit you best.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://support.nabble.com/Tomcat-user-group-tp7604231p7604266.html
To unsubscribe from Tomcat user group, click here.
NAML
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Re: Tomcat user group

Fernal73
In reply to this post by GregChapman
I received my first Digest email from Nabble. The email size is smaller than from the original group which sends out the entire text. Nabble's emails are HTML, versus only text from the Tomcat user group. It might be more even if it appears smaller.

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019, 12:17 GregChapman [via Nabble Support], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oops. Our posts crossed.

Tomcat offers a digest as well as individual post subscription. I cannot imagine they are significantly different in size, but otherwise I think you now understand how things work and can make a decision on what approach will suit you best.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://support.nabble.com/Tomcat-user-group-tp7604231p7604266.html
To unsubscribe from Tomcat user group, click here.
NAML