Line wrapping in quotes

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Line wrapping in quotes

Denis Mekhanikov
Hi!

In Apache Ignite community we use Nabble for our developers and users list. There is an issue, that breaks formatting of messages sent from the developers forum.

Take a look at the latest messages in the following thread: http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Apache-Ignite-2-7-6-Time-Scope-and-Release-manager-td42944.html

Starting from some nesting level of quotes the formatting starts looking bizarre. It affects mailing clients in a pretty bad way.

Is there a way to fix this? Interestingly, users list doesn't seem to be suffering from this issue.

Thanks!
Denis
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Re: Line wrapping in quotes

GregChapman
Everything looks pretty much as expected to me on both:
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/
and
http://apache-ignite-users.70518.x6.nabble.com/

The essential difference in format appears to be that those in the developers list are using plain text mail programs (or more likely the original list is set to render mail as plain text set to a maximum 80 character line length)
whereas those on the Users list are using HTML mail programs (or the list is set to accept HTML mail).

As all mail on the developers list appears to be received by Nabble as plain text, then once it is rendered on a web site, it will have that appearance.

My first thought is that this is not a Nabble issue but is determined by the original mail list software and needs to be pursued with the list owner.

Am I missing something about what you see in the Nabble archive of the lists?
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.
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Re: Line wrapping in quotes

Denis Mekhanikov
Greg,

Thanks for looking into this!

The issue, that I'm concerned about is messages, that have the following quotes:

>> > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 10:40 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >  [hidden email] >
>> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ivan, Ilya, Igniters,
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > I would like this release would be as minimal as
>> > > possible.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > According to dates proposed we could freeze scope at
>> > > 12.08, 4
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > days
>> > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > > > more
>> > > > > > > > > > > > than enough to stand up and say, ‘Hey, I have an
>> urgent
>> > > fix’.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But
>> > > > > > > > it is
>> > > > > > > > > > > > also ok for me if we decide to have more relaxed
>> dates.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > For now, I suppose the following fixed should be
>> > > cherry-picked:
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-11767
>> > > (Blocker)
>> > > > > > > > > > > > GridDhtPartitionsFullMessage retains huge maps on
>> heap
>> > in
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > exchange
>> > > > > > > > > > history

Is it something that Nabble can generate?

Denis
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Re: Line wrapping in quotes

GregChapman
I confess that I had not found a message with that level of quoting and I agree that looks ugly to the point of becoming unreadable!

However, I reckon it is an inevitable consequence of subscribers top-posting over replies multiple times and a mail list that is set to render all messages in plain text and wrap at around 80 characters.

If you subscribed direct to the mail list rather than look at Nabble's archive you'd see the same 80 character limit and awkward wrapping.

It seems to me that you need to take this up with the maillist owners at
http://ignite.apache.org/community/resources.html#mail-lists
However, I suspect that the decision to have the developers list in plain text is deliberate, as it's often much easier to read code in a mono-pitched font. That will be less a priority on a user list and is perhaps why it does not have quite the same issue.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.
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Re: Line wrapping in quotes

Denis Mekhanikov
Greg,

What makes me think that Nabble has something to do with it is that messages sent from other mailing clients look normal.
Wrapping is not applied to the first message, but it is for the ones that follow it. I guess, that they were sent from Nabble, which made them 80-character-wide.

I exported a few emails in a raw format from my email client. The ones, that I sent using an external client have Content-Type: text/plain
The ones, that were sent from Nabble have Content-Type: multipart/alternative

I started a thread on the Apache Ignite developers list to find the administrator, but he doesn’t want to reveal himself yet.
In the meantime I’d like to find a confirmation, that something like that can be caused by Nabble. 

Is there a way to make emails be wrapped before sending? 

I’ll just ask the admin to disable this feature, when we find one.

Denis
On 29 Aug 2019, 17:27 +0300, GregChapman [via Nabble Support] <[hidden email]>, wrote:
I confess that I had not found a message with that level of quoting and I agree that looks ugly to the point of becoming unreadable!

However, I reckon it is an inevitable consequence of subscribers top-posting over replies multiple times and a mail list that is set to render all messages in plain text and wrap at around 80 characters.

If you subscribed direct to the mail list rather than look at Nabble's archive you'd see the same 80 character limit and awkward wrapping.

It seems to me that you need to take this up with the maillist owners at
http://ignite.apache.org/community/resources.html#mail-lists
However, I suspect that the decision to have the developers list in plain text is deliberate, as it's often much easier to read code in a mono-pitched font. That will be less a priority on a user list and is perhaps why it does not have quite the same issue.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Re: Line wrapping in quotes

GregChapman
Hi Denis,
Denis Mekhanikov wrote
What makes me think that Nabble has something to do with it is that messages sent from other mailing clients look normal.
For example you can take a look at the following thread: http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Asynchronous-registration-of-binary-metadata-td43021.html
Wrapping is not applied to the first message, but it is for the ones that follow it. I guess, that they were sent from Nabble, which made them 80-character-wide.
There are a number of ways to post to the Apache Ignite Developers list.
1. Post via an email client direct to the list.
2. Post direct the Nabble forum
3. Post via email to the Nabble forum

You also need to be know how Nabble operates when acting as an archive. Nabble simply subscribes to the mail list and as it receives posts from the mail list it posts them to what is, in effect, a standard Nabble forum. Once the forum is established people can then either post directly to the forum or via email to the forum (though this last option always strikes me as redundant, as it just puts an additional process in the chain. If you are going to post via email it makes far more sense to me to post direct to the mail list). Just as with the mail it receives from a subscription, any post received via email is processed to become a post on the forum.

When a new non-subscription post appears on a forum linked to a mail list, the new post is then immediately forwarded to the mail list, with the From: address spoofed to make it appear to come from the original poster and not the forum. What happens next depends on the mail list. In many cases mail lists only allow subscribers to post and a reject message is returned to Nabble. Nabble then flags the post as not accepted by the mail list, (and reminds the sender to subscribe to the original list). While people reading the forum can respond to the forum post, their posts will also only appear on the forum unless they are subscribers to the original list.

I am not clear, from your description below:
I exported a few emails in a raw format from my email client. The ones, that I sent using an external client have Content-Type: text/plain
The ones, that were sent from Nabble have Content-Type: multipart/alternative
You don't say whether the ones sent "using an external client" were sent to Nabble (Option 3) or sent to the mail list (Option 1) address.
Is there a way to make emails be wrapped before sending?
Having written all the above and expecting to finish by repeating that this is an issue with the mail list rather than the forum, I have just checked on one of my forums and found this administrator page which will have an impact...

Mail List Settings
It looks as if you are right and there is a setting that will affect things - but I don't think can be counted as the primary cause of your complaint.

For the creator of the  Apache Ignite Developers forum to have set "This list accepts only plain-text emails" surely means that the Dev list itself is set to strip out HTML attachments and so it is reasonable to ensure that emails sent to the list by Nabble are in the appropriate format for the list.

This would account for initial posts either emailed or posted directly to the forum appearing wrapped at the window edge while any posts received from the mail list will be in plain text format with 80 column wrapping and will be displayed that way on the forum

I note that the Users List archive was created by someone else and, as you say, the archive does not have the issue with wrapping, but I suspect that is because the list itself does not force plain text on its subscribers.

In short, unless the owner of the Dev list can be persuaded to allow HTML mail on the list and the creator of the archive can be persuaded to remove the "Plain text only" setting, then you will have to accept things as they are.

You can email the creator of the archive using the link at the foot of the main forum page.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.
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Re: Line wrapping in quotes

Denis Mekhanikov
Greg,

Thanks a lot for your efforts in explaining how Nabble works! It was really helpful.
You are absolutely right, that the issue doesn’t come from Nabble, but from the mailing list itself.
I noticed, that the difference between dev and user lists is that most messages sent to the users list are in HTML, while the dev list is in plain text mostly.
I tried sending a plain text message to the dev list, using the regular Gmail website, and it was wrapped just like the ones sent from Nabble.

Thank you for your time! I’ll keep on looking for the issue in the mailing list itself.

Denis
On 30 Aug 2019, 01:27 +0300, GregChapman [via Nabble Support] <[hidden email]>, wrote:
Hi Denis,
Denis Mekhanikov wrote
What makes me think that Nabble has something to do with it is that messages sent from other mailing clients look normal.
For example you can take a look at the following thread: http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Asynchronous-registration-of-binary-metadata-td43021.html
Wrapping is not applied to the first message, but it is for the ones that follow it. I guess, that they were sent from Nabble, which made them 80-character-wide.
There are a number of ways to post to the Apache Ignite Developers list.
1. Post via an email client direct to the list.
2. Post direct the Nabble forum
3. Post via email to the Nabble forum

You also need to be know how Nabble operates when acting as an archive. Nabble simply subscribes to the mail list and as it receives posts from the mail list it posts them to what is, in effect, a standard Nabble forum. Once the forum is established people can then either post directly to the forum or via email to the forum (though this last option always strikes me as redundant, as it just puts an additional process in the chain. If you are going to post via email it makes far more sense to me to post direct to the mail list). Just as with the mail it receives from a subscription, any post received via email is processed to become a post on the forum.

When a new non-subscription post appears on a forum linked to a mail list, the new post is then immediately forwarded to the mail list, with the From: address spoofed to make it appear to come from the original poster and not the forum. What happens next depends on the mail list. In many cases mail lists only allow subscribers to post and a reject message is returned to Nabble. Nabble then flags the post as not accepted by the mail list, (and reminds the sender to subscribe to the original list). While people reading the forum can respond to the forum post, their posts will also only appear on the forum unless they are subscribers to the original list.

I am not clear, from your description below:
I exported a few emails in a raw format from my email client. The ones, that I sent using an external client have Content-Type: text/plain
The ones, that were sent from Nabble have Content-Type: multipart/alternative
You don't say whether the ones sent "using an external client" were sent to Nabble (Option 3) or sent to the mail list (Option 1) address.
Is there a way to make emails be wrapped before sending?
Having written all the above and expecting to finish by repeating that this is an issue with the mail list rather than the forum, I have just checked on one of my forums and found this administrator page which will have an impact...

Mail List Settings
It looks as if you are right and there is a setting that will affect things - but I don't think can be counted as the primary cause of your complaint.

For the creator of the  Apache Ignite Developers forum to have set "This list accepts only plain-text emails" surely means that the Dev list itself is set to strip out HTML attachments and so it is reasonable to ensure that emails sent to the list by Nabble are in the appropriate format for the list.

This would account for initial posts either emailed or posted directly to the forum appearing wrapped at the window edge while any posts received from the mail list will be in plain text format with 80 column wrapping and will be displayed that way on the forum

I note that the Users List archive was created by someone else and, as you say, the archive does not have the issue with wrapping, but I suspect that is because the list itself does not force plain text on its subscribers.

In short, unless the owner of the Dev list can be persuaded to allow HTML mail on the list and the creator of the archive can be persuaded to remove the "Plain text only" setting, then you will have to accept things as they are.

You can email the creator of the archive using the link at the foot of the main forum page.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://support.nabble.com/Line-wrapping-in-quotes-tp7604136p7604142.html
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NAML