How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

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How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
Thank you

Regards
PAscal
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

GregChapman
I think you are requesting that you or a colleague replace Hugo<Nabble> as "owner" of the forum at:
http://www.postgresql-archive.org/

Is that what you want?
One of the Nabble team needs to make that adjustment.
Just a Volunteer Nabble Helper - because the nice folk at Nabble have helped me!
GregHelp - Building a set of answers to Nabble FAQs.
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
Yes, we are searching how to do that
But this won't be with my personnal account
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Raven<Nabble>
Administrator
Can you provide some more information? Why do you need access? Did you have access before? Who are you?
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
Hello,
I'm a user of postgresql-archive.org, and I like it ;o)

Inside Postgresql community, there are discussions regarding this website
see http://www.postgresql-archive.org/postgresql-archive-org-td6035059.html
or (official postgresql website)
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/0e42e6baadd2646e4b17ae39ce39870d%40postgresql.org

There are many questions regarding:
- changing the title to explain that this is not an official postgresql website, but just a mailing list display,
- removing Google Ads,
- switch the website to https,
- prevent users from adding attachments,
- add missing mailing lists,
- ...

As Hugo<Nabble> (previous Admin of the website) is not active any more (as he left Nabble in March 2017),
we (Postgresql community) would like to be granted admin privileges over that forum ...

Is that possible and how (do we have to create a specific account) ?

Thanks in advance
Regards
PAscal
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Raven<Nabble>
Administrator
I have forwarded your request.
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Franklin <Nabble>
Administrator
In reply to this post by PAscall
PAscall, there seem to be wide variety of opinions in the thread that you linked to.  I will address your points.

PAscall wrote
- changing the title to explain that this is not an official postgresql website, but just a mailing list display,
I agree.  We have no desire to misrepresent our site as an official postgresql website.  I changed the description.  Please let me know if this is good enough.

- removing Google Ads,
I have been subsidizing Nabble from other businesses for some time.  Right now I would prefer for Nabble to cover its own costs.  This is why we have ads.  Maybe you can think of some reasonable compromise to avoid annoying regular users.  For example, the "Disable Popup Ads" link in the footer could be changed to "Disable Ads" and users could use that to turn off ads.  What do you think?

- switch the website to https,
We could do this, but why?  Google is an insane company that is trying to impose its will on the world and force everyone to use https.  But technical users like those who would use this archive should be able to ignore Google's ridiculous warnings for http forms.

- prevent users from adding attachments,
I could look into this but first please confirm that this is a real issue.  Show me an example of a post from Nabble with attachments.

- add missing mailing lists,
That would be in our interest as well.  After the rest of this is resolved, I will ask Raven to do this.

As Hugo<Nabble> (previous Admin of the website) is not active any more (as he left Nabble in March 2017),
we (Postgresql community) would like to be granted admin privileges over that forum ...
Usually a community owns our archive when they use it in their own site.  In this case, you want us to make it clear that our archive is not part of the official postgresql site and you don't link to us at all.  So I don't understand why you would want to be responsible for administering the archive.  I think it would make more sense for Raven to take ownership of it and we can address any concerns you have through Nabble support.
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
Thank you Franlin for this first answer

changing the title to explain that this is not an official postgresql website, but just a mailing list display,

I agree. We have no desire to misrepresent our site as an official postgresql website. I changed the description. Please let me know if this is good enough.

OK, will ask th the community

removing Google Ads,

I have been subsidizing Nabble from other businesses for some time. Right now I would prefer for Nabble to cover its own costs. This is why we have ads. Maybe you can think of some reasonable compromise to avoid annoying regular users. For example, the "Disable Popup Ads" link in the footer could be changed to "Disable Ads" and users could use that to turn off ads. What do you think?

this would be better than nothing, but it seems that many Nabble forums have no Google Ads activated, what is the rule, how could we be one of them ?

switch the website to https,

We could do this, but why? Google is an insane company that is trying to impose its will on the world and force everyone to use https. But technical users like those who would use this archive should be able to ignore Google's ridiculous warnings for http forms.

this is not only a choice imposed by Google, it has become an IT standard ... how could we get it activated ?

prevent users from adding attachments,

I could look into this but first please confirm that this is a real issue. Show me an example of a post from Nabble with attachments.

searching the phrase "posgresql-archive.org/file" in the website (with nabble advanced search) returns 33 hits http://www.postgresql-archive.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=1843779&query=message%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postgresql-archive.org%2Ffile%22&days=0

We will have to resend all of them ... if preventing users to add attachments is difficult, maybe that sending them with the corresponding mail is easier ?

add missing mailing lists,

That would be in our interest as well. After the rest of this is resolved, I will ask Raven to do this.

OK, we will provide the list

As Hugo (previous Admin of the website) is not active any more (as he left Nabble in March 2017), we (Postgresql community) would like to be granted admin privileges over that forum ...

Usually a community owns our archive when they use it in their own site. In this case, you want us to make it clear that our archive is not part of the official postgresql site and you don't link to us at all. So I don't understand why you would want to be responsible for administering the archive. I think it would make more sense for Raven to take ownership of it and we can address any concerns you have through Nabble support.

Understood, to be confirmed when other concerns are fixed.

Regards PAscal
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Álvaro Herrera
In reply to this post by Franklin <Nabble>
Franklin <Nabble> wrote
PAscall, there seem to be wide variety of opinions in the thread that you linked to.  I will address your points.

PAscall wrote
- changing the title to explain that this is not an official postgresql website, but just a mailing list display,
I agree.  We have no desire to misrepresent our site as an official postgresql website.  I changed the description.  Please let me know if this is good enough.
Certainly looks better :-).

Franklin <Nabble> wrote
- prevent users from adding attachments,
I could look into this but first please confirm that this is a real issue.  Show me an example of a post from Nabble with attachments.
I have no idea how to reference to a specific post in your archive, but here is one in our archives that came from postgresql-archive.org: https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/1535030950581-0.post@n3.nabble.com
To me, the problem is not so much that attachment are created, than the fact that they are "hostage" to the Nabble system.  If the file was passed as a regular attachment instead of as just a link to the Nabble attachment repository, it would be fine.

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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Álvaro Herrera
Another point, to add to those noted by Pascal, is related to linking to a specific email in your archive.  In the official postgresql.org archives, it's trivial to link to an email by Message-Id; and conversely it is trivial to find the message-id of a post.  In your archive, the Message-ID appears nowhere, and it's not possible to create a URL that uses the Message-ID.  If I'm looking at a post, and want to search for it in the postgresql.org archive, my only option is to browse our archive manually until I find it.  If there was a button "show me the Message-ID for this post", this would be a no-brainer and I would have no concern at all.

One of our fears is URLs breaking. For example if a user posts something like "hey, I have the same problem as described in <URL>" with the official archive, it's not a problem because the URL is never going to change.  If they link to an email in the Nabble archive, and the URL changes ten years from now, there's no way to know what it was.
(Yes, we do care about things that happened ten years ago, and yes, links to external archives have become broken given sufficient time. This is not just a theoretical concern.)
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Franklin <Nabble>
Administrator
In reply to this post by PAscall
PAscall wrote
For example, the "Disable Popup Ads" link in the footer could be changed to "Disable Ads" and users could use that to turn off ads.  What do you think?
this would be better than nothing, but it seems that many Nabble forums have no Google Ads activated, what is the rule, how could we be one of them ?
Raven is just picking the potentially profitable forums.  I will talk to Raven about the footer option.

this is not only a choice imposed by Google, it has become an IT standard ... how could we get it activated ?
Much like the earth being flat was the scientific standard at the time of Galileo.  I guess I am a heretic of the Church of Silicon Valley, but okay we will change it to https.

searching the phrase "posgresql-archive.org/file" in the website (with nabble advanced search) returns 33 hits
http://www.postgresql-archive.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=1843779&query=message%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postgresql-archive.org%2Ffile%22&days=0

We will have to resend all of them ... if preventing users to add attachments is difficult, maybe that sending them with the corresponding mail is easier ?
I looked at these and it seems like the attachments are mostly just pictures.  So why are you against this?  This actually seems like a useful thing.

 OK, we will provide the list
Thanks
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
Franklin <Nabble> wrote
PAscall wrote
searching the phrase "posgresql-archive.org/file" in the website (with nabble advanced search) returns 33 hits
http://www.postgresql-archive.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=1843779&query=message%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postgresql-archive.org%2Ffile%22&days=0

We will have to resend all of them ... if preventing users to add attachments is difficult, maybe that sending them with the corresponding mail is easier ?
I looked at these and it seems like the attachments are mostly just pictures.  So why are you against this?  This actually seems like a useful thing.
As described by Álvaro Herrera (Core developer / commiter at PostgreSQL) in the same post, it seems that thoses files (that are not only pictures, but also patches, sql files and so on) are stored on Nabble server. They will be lost if Nabble stops this forum for any reason.
What we would like is that those attachments send from Nabble are send as attachments with the corresponding messages. Like that they will be stored in the pg list. If this is not possible, then we would like you to prevent attachements from being created within Nabble ...

Regards
PAscal

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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
In reply to this post by Álvaro Herrera
May I suggest the following workarround :

Messages on Nabble are built using the title of the message, and the original thread (and its message-id) can be retrieved using the search engine described here:

https://www.postgresql-archive.org/how-to-search-a-phrase-in-mailing-message-title-td6035864.html

Regards
PAscal
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Álvaro Herrera
Well, maybe it works today, but it is really cumbersome and requires using yet another external archive.  An interface that would work for me would be something like a special URL that returns the original Message-Id, say something like:

http://support.nabble.com/get-message-id/How-to-join-Hugo-Nabble-owner-of-postgresql-archive-org-tp7601285p7601304.html

returns the unadorned message-id.

I can search my local mailbox for specific message Subject already, but in order to find the exact message, if the thread is long I have to open the page to make sure I select the correct message.  Very awkward.
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Franklin <Nabble>
Administrator
In reply to this post by PAscall
PAscall wrote
As described by Álvaro Herrera (Core developer / commiter at PostgreSQL) in the same post, it seems that thoses files (that are not only pictures, but also patches, sql files and so on) are stored on Nabble server. They will be lost if Nabble stops this forum for any reason.
What we would like is that those attachments send from Nabble are send as attachments with the corresponding messages. Like that they will be stored in the pg list. If this is not possible, then we would like you to prevent attachements from being created within Nabble ...
Okay I understand.  We will find a solution to this.  We will address your list of issues over the next few weeks and I will post here as each is fixed.  We have done https.
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
Thank you for "Header message" and "https" !
And Thanks in advance for all the remaining points ;o)

PAscal
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Raven<Nabble>
Administrator
Disabled adding attachments.
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

Raven<Nabble>
Administrator
"Disable popup ads" is now "Disable ads", so a user can disable all ads on the site.
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Re: How to join Hugo <Nabble> , owner of postgresql-archive.org ?

PAscall
Great !
I have asked  PG community for lists to add (if any)

Regards
PAscal