Basic User Manual for Nabble

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Basic User Manual for Nabble

Mintrax
I have just completed a website for a client which includes a Nabble forum.

The client has never looked after a forum so I thought I would dig up a Basic User Manual for Nabble.

I can't find one, surely one exists.

If not than there really should be one.

Regards

Michael
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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

GregChapman
Mintrax wrote
I thought I would dig up a Basic User Manual for Nabble.

I can't find one, surely one exists.

If not than there really should be one.
Unfortunately, the small team at Nabble seem to assume that the principles of operating a forum is well understood and that all users need is a little help with certain details where Nabble's service may differ from other forums. That is what Nabble's Help pages and this forum is intended to provide.

I have contemplated attempting to write a manual, but the trouble is that Nabble is constantly changing as the product is still very much in development. That has put me off attempting the task - and I'm sure the position is the same for the team at Nabble.
Volunteer Helper - but recommending that users move off the platform!
Once the admin for GregHelp now deleted.
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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

Mintrax
Hi Greg,

Thanks for the reply.

The basics of the Forum's, Blog's etc hasn't really changed for years. Edit post, move post etc.  So I certainly don't agree on that point.

It's seems the Nabble team  expect someone to dig around the Support forum to get answers to every basic questions for a non-techy user.  As for the Help pages there is absolutely nothing there relating the basic stuff.

They may be a small team and I do love their product, but all the same I pay for Support (when I can't get the answer from Free Support ) and I pay to remove ads from the Forums, Blogs etc.

This is a professional organisation that charges for it's services, and charges clients for adverts. It's certainly not too much to expect a User Manual.  

What percentage of Software products do you have that don't have a Help/User Manual?  Very few, I would suggest.

The problem really stems from the really bad idea of paying for Premium Support. There is absolutely no incentive to produce the Manual.  

Regards

Michael

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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

Pedro
On the other hand, our support forum is a "2.0 manual", everybody is building it together. We do want to have a basic manual, but it is not the urgency priority for now.
My test forum.
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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

Mintrax
Thanks for the reply Pedro.

But what you are saying is a total cop out.

As an example, today I needed to find out how to open a link in a separate window. So I did a search in your so called Manual. The most recent instruction I could find came from 2011 and the navigation required as explained in the post was totally out of date with the current product.

I mean c'mon you've got to be kidding.

A user's forum is NOT a users manual.
How many software products have a Users Forum AND a manual.  Plenty.
How many software products have a Manual and no Forum. Plenty.
How many have a Forum and no Manual. Very few.

In fact I'd appreciate a few examples of software products that have the same setup of no manual, just a forum.

If you were not charging for your product,  I would be a little more sympathetic.  But still I can't think of many free software products that don't have a manual either.

From a business point of view, if there was a Basic Users Manual i'm sure you would get a far greater uptake of clients.. Without one it's all too hard for the average/non pc type user.

How about taking a week off upgrading and get the Manual done, yes I know it's no fun and tedious...but surely after all these years the product deserves it.

It's terrific.

PS  This all came about because I just did a web site for a client and included a Nabble forum in it. I told them they needed to have an Administrator who knew how to look after it. They said OK can you point us to the Instructions/Operation Manual, I said there isn't any, just a forum.  Understandably, they were not happy.


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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

GregChapman
Hi Mintrax,

Yes, Pedro's answer is a bit of a cop-out, but a full scale manual does take a lot of thinking about. (I know! I'm involved in documenting an open source plain text mail program, nPOPuk)...

What level of knowledge can you assume in your readers?
How much of the basic operation of a forum needs to be explained?
Should it just be an administrator's, or a more general user's guide?
What level of experience in setting up multi-user software/computers can you assume (even for an Administrators Guide)?

Currently, I have around 60 starred items in this forum which, when marked, I believed to be important options that can be coded within NAML or answers to FAQs. I now find myself regularly searching those posts for relevant terms within them before posting responses here.

If I can find the time - no promises about when - I'll create a new forum that collects, organises and edits those posts in an anonomised form, so that they could be imported into the support forum as locked reference material that I or the Nabble team could edit as additional FAQs emerge in the main Premium Support and Free Support forums.

Certainly, one of the things that would be worth asking for is that every visible new feature (as distinct from invisible bug fixes) is reported in the "Nabble Latest Features" sub-forum - not just the complete game-changers, as at the moment. I know Nabble makes almost weekly updates, some that make subtle, but important, changes to the user interface, with more radical changes every six months or so - often these are features initially added to specific forums in response to Premium Support requests and then later rolled out into the main product.
Volunteer Helper - but recommending that users move off the platform!
Once the admin for GregHelp now deleted.
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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

nnako
This post was updated on .
Hi,

I would support Mintrax's points 100% when it is about building a community of satisfied customers on the long run. Not just a short term business idea to exploit people who have become dependent on the platform they have chosen in order to built their own community. A one-to-one support will not work when the user community is to grow. Even in our highly web-based world with searchable information scattered everywhere, a user manual must still be seen as the basis for information retrieval about a serious product. When there are questions and the answers are not covered by the manual or if the statements within the manual are not clear enough, people can ask their questions within the support forum. But the new and clarified information must go back into the (well structured!) user manual. A simple "list" is not considered as "well structured". Especially, because the Nabble team is so small, one person's focus should be on the provision of a structured user documentation. It would keep him from answering the same questions over and over again (always in different colors).

The problem is a MISSING UNDERSTANDING of the Nabble system. The need for understanding goes far beyond the description which button is to be pressed for standard operations. Rather the ability to decide in which direction to think when something unexpected happens. Real understanding of interfaces and concepts behind the functionality. Not necessarily on a source code level, but understandable.

GregChapman wrote
What level of knowledge can you assume in your readers?
How much of the basic operation of a forum needs to be explained?
Should it just be an administrator's, or a more general user's guide?
What level of experience in setting up multi-user software/computers can you assume (even for an Administrators Guide)?
Yes, the questions about the right choice of content and detail level are valid. But they should never keep a development team from documenting their product. On the contrary: they should spawn creative solutions. Even the community could (and would certainly) help document the system. When the right incentives are there. There are thousands of gifted people willing to support inspiring projects (it kind of works already with the Nabble translations).

GregChapman wrote
Currently, I have around 60 starred items in this forum which, when marked, I believed to be important options that can be coded within NAML or answers to FAQs. I now find myself regularly searching those posts for relevant terms within them before posting responses here.
Great. I myself have read all documentations about NAML, but I still don't understand the bigger picture so well. I still have to search for a starting point. It just takes too long. Having to dig into the pool of questions/answers always hoping that maybe someone might have asked my question before. And, after not finding the needed information, post a question and wait for an answer to hopefully get me going again...

So, don't put the responses here! Put them into a structured, detailed manual, where everybody interested will find them.  ;-)

Why not look out for good documentation techniques within other projects? There are loads of them out there. And then adopt the design and structure. Some go away from pure textual description and use simple drawings (can be done with a pencil on paper) to convey key points which are just too hard to understand using just words (especially for non-tech users)...

GregChapman wrote
Certainly, one of the things that would be worth asking for is that every visible new feature (as distinct from invisible bug fixes) is reported in the "Nabble Latest Features" sub-forum...
Mentioning functions is one thing. Documenting the usage, how it fits into the overall system and how it supports the user while getting his things done, is an other, much more important thing. Promote understanding.

Please, let's start finding a way to provide reasonable user support. Thank you.
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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

Mintrax
Great post nnako.

Greg, why not look at one of Nabble's competitor Lefora.

Here is a link to their Help page makes Nabble's non effort look less than impressive.

http://support.lefora.com/support/home

I think the problem with Nabble generally is that it is run by programmers who want to enjoy what they do and don't want to do the tedious stuff that is required to create a professional product.

There is heaps of work going into the back end and virtually none into the front end. Look at the New Post Entry box. It hasn't changed in years.  Surely we could have a series of drop downs so you could quickly insert html tags link <p>   etc.  Basic stuff that never gets done.  

Look at the example forums, virtually no NAML anywhere.  At a guess the vast majority of users wouldn't have a clue about using NAML yet much effort goes into it while the interface remains virtually stagnant.

I know i'm being super critical here but I think it needs to be said. Maybe someone will take notice.



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Re: Basic User Manual for Nabble

nnako
Hi again,

sorry to disturb again. I just want to encourage you Nabble people again, to think about extending your activities regarding documentation of NAML. It seems to be a mighty tool in the hands of people who understand the concept and know where to look for the bits they need in order to build sophisticated web applications.

Here my view of the current documentation status

The introduction to NAML tutorial is a great introduction of the NAML system. The language introduction is clear and understandable. It seems to be perfect for getting a practical idea of how to use NAML in general. Together with the gallery example tutorial, the introduction is perfect and motivating. The macro parameter description, especially regarding the "dot parameter", is quite short. As this subject seems to be the key to understanding NAML's flexibility, more detail and further examples might be useful. The description for overriding a macro is very good and practical. Maybe other activity descriptions would be great as well; not just the overriding of existing macros. The section about namespaces and the stack is empty. I guess, information about the structure was intended to be placed here. The help pages hold some basic information for maintainers and users of the different applications. Here, structurizing the topics and adding of condensed solution posts from the support forum would be helpful. It could evolve as a central usage manual.

Within the documentations mentioned above, a handful of parameters and some structural information is available. Now, a kind of "reference manual" which covers the following items would be a great help for developers who rather "do" than "ask":

- overview of how to use ALL the flow control concepts (e.g. if, while, case, loop,...)
- overview of ALL "variables" the programmer can access (e.g. the current user's name, subscription status,...)
- overview of ALL usable Nabble commands (e.g. "overridden",...)
- concept explanation of the "requires" parameter in macro definitions and an overview of ALL possible members
- structure descriptions to see relations between macro functions and page outputs (cause and effect)
- ...

Just tell me. I'd like to support.